The Reformed Doctrine of General Non-electing Love

[Flynn]

Ursinus on the three fold love of God and other related issues:

"Merciful." God's mercy appears in this: 1. That he wills the salvation of all men. 2. That he defers punishment, and invites all to repentance. 3. That he accommodates himself to our infirmity. 4. That he redeems those who are called into his service. 5. That he gave and delivered up to death his only begotten Son. 6. That he promises and does all these things most freely out of his mercy. 7. That he confers benefits upon his enemies, and such as are unworthy of his regard.
Obj. 1. But God seems to take pleasure in avenging himself upon the ungodly. Ans. Only in as far as it is the execution of his justice. Obj. 2. He refuses mercy to the ungodly. Ans. Only to such as do not repent. Obj. 3. He does not save all when he has the power. Ans. God acts thus that he may exhibit his justice with his mercy. Obj. 4. He does not exercise his mercy without a sufficient satisfaction. Ans. Yet he has most freely given his Son, that he might make satisfaction by his death.

"Bountiful." God is said to be bountiful; I. Because he creates and preserves all thing. 2. Because he confers benefits upon all, even upon the wicked. 3. Because of the free and boundless love which he exercises towards his creatures, especially to man. 4. Because of the love which he cherished towards the church, and in giving eternal life and glory to his people. Obj. 1. But the Scriptures speak of God as cherishing anger. Ans. Be is angry with sin and depravity, but not with his creatures.
Obj. 2. God often inflicts punishment upon his creatures. Ans. Only upon such as are impenitent. Ursinus, Commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism, Lord's Day 8, Q 25, p., 127.


Obj. He who rigorously exacts his right, shuts out every expectation of clemency. God rigorously exacts his right. Therefore with him there is no clemency. Or the objection may be thus stated: He who does not yield any thing in relation to his rights, is not merciful, but only just. God does not yield any thing as it respects his rights, because he punishes every sin with a punishment that corresponds with its just desert.
Ans. We deny the minor proposition, because God, although he punishes sin with eternal punishment, does nevertheless yield much as it respects his right. He exhibits great clemency, for instance, towards the reprobate, for he defers the punishment which they deserve, and invites them to repentance by strong and powerful motives. And as to the punishment which he will inflict upon them in the world to come, it will be lighter than they deserved. So he also exercises great mercy towards the faithful, for he has, from his mercy alone, without being bound by any law or merit on our part, given his son, and subjected him to punishment for our sake.
We also deny the major proposition, if applied either to him who is endowed with such wisdom that he can discover a method of exercising mercy without violating his justice, or when applied to him who, whilst he executes his justice, does not rejoice in the destruction of man, but would rather that he be saved. As a judge, when he passes the sentence upon a robber that he deserves to be put to the torture, and yet does not take pleasure in his punishment, exhibits great equity and clemency, even though he seems to exact the most rigorous demand of the law, so God is far more equitable and clement, although, in his just judgment, he punishes sin, for he does not delight in the destruction of the wicked, (Ez. 18:23; 33:11.) and has also shown his mercy and compassion towards us, by laying the punishment which we deserved upon his own Son. Ursinus, Commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism, Lord's Day 4, Question 11, pp., 69-70.

[David: To be remembered is that for the Protestant Scholastics, the clemency of God is defined as: "Clementia: clemency, mildness; specifically, clementia Dei: the mildness or clemency of God; viz., that affection of the divine will, related to mercy (misericordia, q.v.) and longsuffering (longanimitas, q.v.), according to which God is gentle and forbearing toward his creatures." Muller, Dictionary of Latin and Greek Theological Terms, p 68.]

David: What we see here in just these two comments from Ursinus, whom I love and respect as a great theologian and thinker, everything we needed to know about his view of election, reprobation and the well-meant offer. Paired together are God's willing the salvation of all men, God's love to man, God's mercy and clemency even to the reprobate, and God's inviting them, by strong and powerful motives, to salvation.

On the Three-Fold Love of God distinction, see classic supporting Documentation:

Amandus Polanus on the General Love

And

a’ Brakel on General Love

Classic predestinarian doctrine is in no way a contradiction to Common Grace, General Love, and the Well-Meant offer.

This is my point. That has been my object in this.

Take care,
David

[Polemicus]

Bert, any progress on defending the statements you made here? Otherwise you may consider withdrawing this charge. More so, because in the opinion of the reformers, this doctrine is completely in accordance with Scripture, as well as the three forms of unity. Our churches do not teach anything on these themes that you will not find in there. Just as they do not teach anything on the covenant that you do not find in the confessions.

So, where is your evidence taken from the sources Bert?

[Polemicus]

There are more beautiful quotes of Calvin on this subject, for exemple these:

“Ziet dan, hoe onze Heere Jezus de zonden en ongerechtigheden van velen gedragen heeft. Het is waar, dat dit woord velen vaak zoveel bete­kent als allen. En inderdaad, onze Heere Jezus is aangeboden aan heel de wereld, want er wordt niet gesproken van drie of vier, als gezegd wordt: God heeft alzo lief de wereld gehad, dat Hij Zijn enige Zoon niet gespaard heeft. Maar toch moeten wij opmerken, wat het Evan­gelie daar nog aan toe­voegt: Opdat een iegelijk die in Hem gelooft, niet verderve maar het eeuwige leven hebbe.

Translation: See then, how our Lord Jezus bore the sin and inequity of many. It is true, that this word many (Isai 53) often means so much as: all. And indeed, our Lord Jezus is offered to the whole world, for it is not spoken of three or four, when it is said: God so loved the world, that He didn't spare His only Son. But yet we have to note, that the gospel adds to that: that whosoever believes in Him, will not perish but have live eternal.

Ziet dus, hoe onze Heere Jezus voor ons allen geleden heeft, en dat er groot noch klein is, die heden te verontschuldigen zou zijn, aangezien wij zaligheid in Hem kun­nen verkrijgen. De ongelovi­gen, die zich ervan afkeren en die er zichzelf door hun boosheid van bero­ven, zijn heden dubbel schuldig. Want met welk voorwendsel zullen zij kunnen komen, om hun ondankbaarheid te verontschuldigen, waar zij de weldaad niet aannemen, waarvan zij deelgenoot konden zijn door geloof?

Leren wij dan, dat, als wij in grote menigte tot onze Heere Jezus Christus komen, de een de ander niet in de weg staat, als zou Hij niet genoeg hebben voor een ieder van ons. [...] Wanneer wij bij Jezus Christus komen, behoeven wij niet bang te zijn, dat Zijn vermogen te kort schiet, en dat, als ieder zijn deel zal hebben, bij Hem enige vermindering komt, zodat niet altijd weer anderen er genoeg vinden. Want in hoe groter getale wij komen, hoe meer wij Hem rijk zullen bevinden om in onze nooddruft te helpen. Zo hebben wij er dus op te letten, dat de profeet niet zonder oorzaak zegt, dat Hij de zonde van velen gedragen heeft; wij behoeven op onze naasten niet jaloers te zijn, als zouden wij teleurgesteld en niet geholpen worden, omdat er te veel anderen waren. Ziedaar in hoofdsom, wat wij van deze Schriftuurplaats hebben te onthouden.”[3]

In his comment on Rom. 5:18 (“Zo dan, gelijk door één misdaad de schuld gekomen is over alle mensen tot verdoemenis; alzo ook door één rechtvaardigheid komt de genade over alle mensen tot rechtvaardigmaking des levens”) he says:

“De genade maakt hij allen gemeen, omdat zij allen voorgesteld is, en niet, dat zij metterdaad tot alle mensen uitgestrekt wordt. Want hoewel Christus voor de zonden der ganse wereld geleden heeft, en door Gods goedheid alle mensen zonder onderscheid aangeboden wordt, zo wordt Hij nochtans van allen niet aangegrepen.”

Translation: This grace he makes to all common, because she is offered to all, and not, that she is extended actually to all men. For though Christ has suffered for the sins of the whole world, and by Gods grace is offered to all men without distinction, He is yet not graped by all.

In his commentary on Hebr. 9:15 (“En daarom is Hij de Middelaar des nieuwen testaments, opdat, de dood daartussen gekomen zijnde, tot verzoening der overtredingen, die onder het eerste testament waren, degenen, die geroepen zijn, de beloftenis der eeuwige erve ontvangen zouden”) and 28 (“Alzo ook Christus, eenmaal geofferd zijnde, om veler zonden weg te nemen, zal ten anderen male zonder zonde gezien worden van degenen, die Hem verwachten tot zaligheid”) he says it likewise:

“Sommigen nemen hier dit woord geroepen, voor verkoren: maar naar mijn oordeel ge­schiedt zulks ten onrechte. Want de apostel leert hier hetzelfde, wat de heilige Paulus in Romeinen 3:25 leert, te weten: Dat de gerechtigheid en zaligheid ons verworven zijn door het bloed van Jezus Christus, maar wij ontvangen ze door het geloof. Hij zegt veler voor allen, gelijk in Romeinen 5:15 staat­. Het is wel waar, dat uit de dood van Christus alle mensen geen vrucht zullen heb­ben: maar dit geschiedt door hun ongeloof, hetwelk zulks belet

Translation: Some take this word called here, for elected: but to my judgement this is done incorrectly. For the apostle teaches here the same, as Paul says in Rom. 3:25: That the rightiousness and salvation are aquired for us by the blood of Jesus Christ, but we receive them by faith. He says of many, meaning all, like in Rom. 5:15. It is true, that all men will not benefit from the dead of Christ: but this happens by there unbelief, that obstructs this.

[Flynn]

Years ago I read VanderKemp on the Heidelberg Catechism.

Can anyone tell me where he stood in the Dutch Reformed tradition?

From my files I found these, which are some of the best.

Nor ye neither, who with “Herod do many things,” Mark 6:20, and the Jews “have a zeal for God,” Roms 10:2. But are these good things better than heathenish and Socinian, civil and externally religious virtues, consisting in a forsaking of evil, and doing good externally, without any change or regeneration of the heart? things which do not accompany salvation, which men can do from a natural conscience and by common grace, like Abimelech, Gen. 20:4,5,6. But ye do not perform them from a principle of the life of regeneration, nor from an union of our souls with Jesus, as the true vine: “to be dead to yourselves, and to live in God with Christ is hidden from you,” Col. 3:3. If ye knew this, and endeavoured to practise it, ye would see experimentally your inability to do good, and your inclination to do all wickedness, and would be concerned. 1:76.

Finally, we distinguish the providence of God is that by which he shows favour, from a common good-will to all his creature; yea to the ungodly as well as to the godly: “God makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust,” Matt. 5:45. The special providence of God is that by which God, as a Father in Christ, from a special good-will, provides believers with all things: “God is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that believe,” 1 Tim. 4:10. See Psalm 83. God gives in the least gift to himself, and his Son to believers, as his children and heirs: but he withholds himself from others, although he gives them also many gifts, as we give a beggar an alms from a common good inclination to him, but do not unity ourselves to him, do not take him into our home, or make him our heir object here, as though he were our child. 1:218-219.

For (a) God suffers occasions to occur to the sinner, which are in themselves good, but which the sinner abuses by his sinfulness, as Abel’s acceptable sacrifices to Cain, Joseph’s dreams to his brethren, the request of Moses to Pharaoh, that he would let Israel go, as also the word of grace to reprobates, Roms 2: 4,5; 2 Cor. 2:15, 16. (b) God also withholds his restraining grace, whereupon the sinner indulges himself in sin, as “when the Lord forsook Hezekiah, his heart was lifted up,” 2 Chron. 23:31. God does not sin, when he acts thus, since he is not bound to bestow his grace upon man, in order that he may not sin. 1:221.

Because, when they [men] enjoy any favourable dispensation of providence, they forget God, they forsake him, and fight against him with his blessings, and employ them as “weapons of unrighteousness, saying to God, Depart from us, and what has the Almighty done?.... 1:226.

Johannes VanderKemp, The Christian, Entirely the Property of Christ, in the life and death, Exhibited in Fifty-three Sermons on the Heidelberg Catechism. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Reformation Heritage Books, 1997). First published in 1717.

His comments on the free offer and God's willingness to save sinners are many and quite powerful. I may take the time to type them out later.

Take care,
David

[Bert Mulder]

There are more beautiful quotes of Calvin on this subject, for exemple these:

“Ziet dan, hoe onze Heere Jezus de zonden en ongerechtigheden van velen gedragen heeft. Het is waar, dat dit woord velen vaak zoveel bete­kent als allen. En inderdaad, onze Heere Jezus is aangeboden aan heel de wereld, want er wordt niet gesproken van drie of vier, als gezegd wordt: God heeft alzo lief de wereld gehad, dat Hij Zijn enige Zoon niet gespaard heeft. Maar toch moeten wij opmerken, wat het Evan­gelie daar nog aan toe­voegt: Opdat een iegelijk die in Hem gelooft, niet verderve maar het eeuwige leven hebbe.
Translation: See then, how our Lord Jezus bore the sin and inequity of many. It is true, that this word many (Isai 53) often means so much as: all. And indeed, our Lord Jezus is offered to the whole world, for it is not spoken of three or four, when it is said: God so loved the world, that He didn't spare His only Son. But yet we have to note, that the gospel adds to that: that whosoever believes in Him, will not perish but have live eternal.

Ziet dus, hoe onze Heere Jezus voor ons allen geleden heeft, en dat er groot noch klein is, die heden te verontschuldigen zou zijn, aangezien wij zaligheid in Hem kun­nen verkrijgen. De ongelovi­gen, die zich ervan afkeren en die er zichzelf door hun boosheid van bero­ven, zijn heden dubbel schuldig. Want met welk voorwendsel zullen zij kunnen komen, om hun ondankbaarheid te verontschuldigen, waar zij de weldaad niet aannemen, waarvan zij deelgenoot konden zijn door geloof?

Leren wij dan, dat, als wij in grote menigte tot onze Heere Jezus Christus komen, de een de ander niet in de weg staat, als zou Hij niet genoeg hebben voor een ieder van ons. [...] Wanneer wij bij Jezus Christus komen, behoeven wij niet bang te zijn, dat Zijn vermogen te kort schiet, en dat, als ieder zijn deel zal hebben, bij Hem enige vermindering komt, zodat niet altijd weer anderen er genoeg vinden. Want in hoe groter getale wij komen, hoe meer wij Hem rijk zullen bevinden om in onze nooddruft te helpen. Zo hebben wij er dus op te letten, dat de profeet niet zonder oorzaak zegt, dat Hij de zonde van velen gedragen heeft; wij behoeven op onze naasten niet jaloers te zijn, als zouden wij teleurgesteld en niet geholpen worden, omdat er te veel anderen waren. Ziedaar in hoofdsom, wat wij van deze Schriftuurplaats hebben te onthouden.”[3]

In his comment on Rom. 5:18 (“Zo dan, gelijk door één misdaad de schuld gekomen is over alle mensen tot verdoemenis; alzo ook door één rechtvaardigheid komt de genade over alle mensen tot rechtvaardigmaking des levens”) he says:

“De genade maakt hij allen gemeen, omdat zij allen voorgesteld is, en niet, dat zij metterdaad tot alle mensen uitgestrekt wordt. Want hoewel Christus voor de zonden der ganse wereld geleden heeft, en door Gods goedheid alle mensen zonder onderscheid aangeboden wordt, zo wordt Hij nochtans van allen niet aangegrepen.”

Translation: This grace he makes to all common, because she is offered to all, and not, that she is extended actually to all men. For though Christ has suffered for the sins of the whole world, and by Gods grace is offered to all men without distinction, He is yet not graped by all.

In his commentary on Hebr. 9:15 (“En daarom is Hij de Middelaar des nieuwen testaments, opdat, de dood daartussen gekomen zijnde, tot verzoening der overtredingen, die onder het eerste testament waren, degenen, die geroepen zijn, de beloftenis der eeuwige erve ontvangen zouden”) and 28 (“Alzo ook Christus, eenmaal geofferd zijnde, om veler zonden weg te nemen, zal ten anderen male zonder zonde gezien worden van degenen, die Hem verwachten tot zaligheid”) he says it likewise:

“Sommigen nemen hier dit woord geroepen, voor verkoren: maar naar mijn oordeel ge­schiedt zulks ten onrechte. Want de apostel leert hier hetzelfde, wat de heilige Paulus in Romeinen 3:25 leert, te weten: Dat de gerechtigheid en zaligheid ons verworven zijn door het bloed van Jezus Christus, maar wij ontvangen ze door het geloof. Hij zegt veler voor allen, gelijk in Romeinen 5:15 staat­. Het is wel waar, dat uit de dood van Christus alle mensen geen vrucht zullen heb­ben: maar dit geschiedt door hun ongeloof, hetwelk zulks belet

Translation: Some take this word called here, for elected: but to my judgement this is done incorrectly. For the apostle teaches here the same, as Paul says in Rom. 3:25: That the rightiousness and salvation are aquired for us by the blood of Jesus Christ, but we receive them by faith. He says of many, meaning all, like in Rom. 5:15. It is true, that all men will not benefit from the dead of Christ: but this happens by there unbelief, that obstructs this.

[Flynn]

Hey Bert,

Can you translate the emphasised words? This is the English forum. :-)

David

[Bert Mulder]

: Opdat een iegelijk die in Hem gelooft, niet verderve maar het eeuwige leven hebbe.

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

deelgenoot konden zijn door geloof?

has part in through faith

voorgesteld is, en niet, dat zij metterdaad tot alle mensen uitgestrekt wordt.

is displayed
and:
not that she indeed is extended to all

degenen, die geroepen zijn, de beloftenis der eeuwige erve ontvangen zouden”)

those that are called, should receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

[Polemicus]

Bert, als de eis van bekering en geloof niets te maken heeft met de verdiensten van Christus, kan men nooit van ongelovigen en onboetvaardigen eisen dat ze tot Christus moeten gaan. Want hoe zullen zij zich ooit kunnen bekeren en het Evangelie geloven, als ze niet eerst weten dat dit Evangelie ook tot hen is gezonden en aan hen is geadresseerd?

Je zult ongetwijfeld antwoorden, dat de bekering en het geloof een vrucht is van de wedergeboorte. Maar de Heilige Schrift leert ons, dat het Evangelie het zaad der wedergeboorte is. En hoe kan dat Evangelie voor een zondaar ooit het zaad der wedergeboorte zijn, als het niet aan die zondaar is geadresseerd?

Met andere woorden, hoe kan men ooit van iemand eisen om iets te geloven, waarvan het onzeker is dat het hem aangaat? Of hoe kan men van een zondaar ooit eisen om zaligmakend voor zichzelf te geloven dat God de uitverkorenen zal zalig maakt, als hij niet eerst weet tot het getal der uitverkorenen te behoren? Het is hetzelfde als van een zieke op grond van zijn gevoel van ziekte te vragen om te geloven dat hij door de dokter gezond gemaakt is, zonder hem te zeggen dat er en een dokter is die zieken wil genezen en zonder hem te bevelen tot deze arts te gaan.

[Bert Mulder]

Bert, als de eis van bekering en geloof niets te maken heeft met de verdiensten van Christus, kan men nooit van ongelovigen en onboetvaardigen eisen dat ze tot Christus moeten gaan. Want hoe zullen zij zich ooit kunnen bekeren en het Evangelie geloven, als ze niet eerst weten dat dit Evangelie ook tot hen is gezonden en aan hen is geadresseerd?

Je zult ongetwijfeld antwoorden, dat de bekering en het geloof een vrucht is van de wedergeboorte. Maar de Heilige Schrift leert ons, dat het Evangelie het zaad der wedergeboorte is. En hoe kan dat Evangelie voor een zondaar ooit het zaad der wedergeboorte zijn, als het niet aan die zondaar is geadresseerd?

Met andere woorden, hoe kan men ooit van iemand eisen om iets te geloven, waarvan het onzeker is dat het hem aangaat? Of hoe kan men van een zondaar ooit eisen om zaligmakend voor zichzelf te geloven dat God de uitverkorenen zal zalig maakt, als hij niet eerst weet tot het getal der uitverkorenen te behoren? Het is hetzelfde als van een zieke op grond van zijn gevoel van ziekte te vragen om te geloven dat hij door de dokter gezond gemaakt is, zonder hem te zeggen dat er en een dokter is die zieken wil genezen en zonder hem te bevelen tot deze arts te gaan.

Translate to English please, for our english speaking members...

No, esteemed Polemicus, as the demand for repentence stems from our fall in Adam. Compare the Heidelberg Catechism.

Doth not God then do injustice to man, by requiring from him in his low, that which he cannot perform?
Answer. Not at all; [a] for God made man capable of performing it; but man, by the instigation [c] of the devil, and his own willful disobedience, [d] deprived himself and all his posterity of those divine gifts.

[Polemicus]

Bert, you forgot one essential phrase: by demanding in His law what he cannot do. God demands in the gospel nothing of anyone, that He is not willing to fulfill. That's why Augustine said: give what Thou demandeth, and demandeth then what Thou wilst. Thus, the gospel is said to be Gods benevolence toward man.

[Polemicus]

Here is the translation:

Bert, if the command of repentance and faith has nothing to do with the death of Christ, one can never demand from the unbelieving and unpenitent to go to Christ. For how shall they ever be able to repent and believe the gospel, if they not first know that this gospel is also send to them and addressed to them?

You will no doubt answer, that the conversion and the faith is a fruit of the regeneration. But the holy Scriptures teach us, that the gospel is the seed of regeneration. And how can that gospel for a sinner ever be the seed of regeneration, if it is not addresses to that sinner?

In other words, how can one ever demand from someone to believe something, of which it is uncertain that it respects him? Or how can one ever demand from a sinner to believe in a saving way that God shall save the elect, if he not first knows that he belongs to the number of the elect? This is the same, as to ask from an ill person to believe on the ground of his sense of illness that he is cured by the doctor, without saying to him that there is a doctor who wants to cure ill persons and without commanding him to go to this physician.

[Bert Mulder]

Bert, you forgot one essential phrase: by demanding in His law what he cannot do. God demands in the gospel nothing of anyone, that He is not willing to fulfill. That's why Augustine said: give what Thou demandeth, and demandeth then what Thou wilst. Thus, the gospel is said to be Gods benevolence toward man.

he????

[Polemicus]

Here is another error: you confuse wrongly the demand of the law with the demand of the gospel. Thus, you mix up these two entities, who differ so much from each other. And on this base, you wrongfully say that God calls in the gospel all mankind to Him, putting the demand of the law as a condition sine qua non for the gospel.

[Bert Mulder]

Here is another error: you confuse wrongly the demand of the law with the demand of the gospel. Thus, you mix up these two entities, who differ so much from each other. And on this base, you wrongfully say that God calls in the gospel all mankind to Him, putting the demand of the law as a condition sine qua non for the gospel.

Well, Esteemed Polemicus, this thread is going the way of the other one...

In the garbage can.

Until you learn to have a meaningful conversation, and not to misquote and pull out of any context,

and above all, not to outright, maliciously misrepresent..

Goodbye!

[Canuck BC]

quote bert:

"voorgesteld is, en niet, dat zij metterdaad tot alle mensen uitgestrekt wordt.

is displayed
and:
not that she indeed is extended to all"


I really think that things are made more difficult than they are. I don't think that God ever made a secret about something that he states so clearly in His Word. God says:
John 3 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

When God says He loved the world, he means literally every single person that He has made. It is so obvious and yet we as christians still have heated conversations about what this or that person has said. But I still think it's the word of God that counts, not the perception that people from whatever church have given to it. This doesn't mean that Calvin is wrong here. He says that it IS diplayed to all. Which means, in my opinion, that God showed and shows Himself a loving God for all men.

This doesn't mean all people accept that love. Because it's in their nature to chose against that love. And since they are not even ABLE to chose for that love, all men have to come to God through that same love. This may seem a paradox but through the love God displayed to all men, He offers them a chance to get to know Him as their Saviour. And that's true love for all men.
But, obviously, not every and each person gets to know God as his saviour. And THAT is what Calvin means by saying: it is not extended to all.

Because according to what you say, Mr Mulder, one could conclude that the display of love to all mankind doesn't count. In my opinion, you kind of emphasize the last part of that sentence though the first part is really there.

And since there's a lot more in the next verse (John 3:17) where God says He doesn't want to condemn the WORLD (which is in my opinion a word used to talk about all mankind) but to save the world. Isn't that a word of love? Does God here not tell us He wants the whole world to be saved? And don't we believe as NRC christians or reformed christians that Jesus' blood was enough to wash ALL the sins of the world? And since we believe that, don't we have to agree on general non-electing love, which in my opinion is a love for everyone, no limitation, NO ONE excluded.